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Post by lou212 on Nov 23, 2007 9:55:57 GMT -5
As for things luck tom and jerry blowing each other up ect.. Well as the kids develop they will take from society what is the accepted moral conduct (i.e. You don't go at someone with a hammer or use TNT to catch a roadrunner...) Things like murder and stealing are unacceptable in most, dare i say all societies these days... Well it also depends on how the kids develop. If they develop to copy or reenact what they see on T.V., then all hell will break loose...
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Post by Youko on Nov 23, 2007 11:21:34 GMT -5
And yet we are going in circles. That's where parenting steps in.
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Post by holyman282 on Nov 23, 2007 18:55:09 GMT -5
My initial argument is that TV as a medium to influence kids (particularly with the bad habits) are easier to manage and monitor then the internet. Any parent that worries what their child could possibly watch on TV can easily rectify this problem with a simple TV guide for the day and only allowing the kids to watch shows that are intended for them.
Internet on the other hand is constantly changing and evolving, making it difficult/impossible to monitor and restrict what they can and cannot view. I feel internet is the major reason for the exponential surge of kids acting and talking like delinquents.
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Post by Youko on Nov 24, 2007 5:45:31 GMT -5
And my argument still holds, unplug the plug. And don't come up with how they can do it in friends house, etc. You can still usually moderate that too. If you are a tech savyy, just restrict what the child has access to. Simpler than it sounds, really.
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Post by holyman282 on Nov 25, 2007 19:53:25 GMT -5
And my argument still holds, unplug the plug. Oh please that's not a solution, it's just like saying to solve the rising population problem we should just kill off several million people. It certainly solves the problem but it's just a blatant statement that doesn't hold weight cause you obviously typed it without much thought of the social consequences of your actions. Kids need the internet to do their homework, they need computers as it's considered "normal" to have one. Not having these luxuries these days would only isolate the child from their friends which would cause even more problems then simply letting them have a computer. You should know that there are always ways around those programs that prevent children from viewing certain sites. There will always be sites and loopholes that the program does not cover. Reguarding what you say about "moderating" the kids at their friend's house, you are basically saying then that it's all the parent's fault. That if they truly loved their kids, they would moderate and control every aspect of their lives in order to prevent them from learning inappropriate things. Are you saying that most parents aren't trying hard enough to protect their kids? Reguardless of how much a parent want to protect their child, there will always be outside influences affecting the kids. Considering that most kids spend 8 hours a day going to school, hence in affect spending more time with teachers and friends then their own parents, some things just can't be controlled or moderated. Also don't give me those arguments about pulling the plug on the computers, smashing the tv with a hammer or locking your kids in room cause those are obviously solutions you thought on the spot, solutions that probably millions of worried parents and teachers thought of, yet haven't implemented. Hmmm do you know why? Cause they are stupid ideas.
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Post by jorgebonafe on Nov 25, 2007 21:19:41 GMT -5
Kids need the internet to do their homework, they need computers as it's considered "normal" to have one. Not having these luxuries these days would only isolate the child from their friends which would cause even more problems then simply letting them have a computer. Ok, first, kids don't need computers to do their homeworks. There is an interesting gadget called "book" that served its purpose for centuries. A computer is just a luxury. And... every kid NEED a computer? Thats heavy..... Kid nº 1 will not befriend kid nº 2 because kid nº 2 doesn't own a computer? Personally, I think kid nº 2 is better off without a friend like that.... In the end its impossible to filter all information a kid has access to. Children are stubborn, if you tell them "Don't see that, don't talk to him" etc, he's only gonna want to do that even more. If you cannot filter, all you can do is teach them right from wrong. Its impossible to cover the kids ears and eyes and prevent them from seeing the world, and if you succeed in doing that, that kid is gonna have a hard time to come off from under the parent's wings one day.
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Post by Youko on Nov 25, 2007 23:28:33 GMT -5
Dear patronizing dolt. Ofcourse it is obvious there are always ways arround blocks, but you do realise thatn moderating a little is better than modrating at all, if deemed necesary. I'd say your mommy would do us a pretty good favour by blocking this site in your computer.
So you are saying that it's stupid to expose children to something and yet you claim it's stupid to try and not to let them get exposed to it? Are you mental? I'd love to see what other you think is better solution than guiding and teaching your kid.
Some people get affected differently by different things and if you are not guided when you are most vulnerable to exposure of bad morales, I'd say its the parents fault. Nowdays the parents tend to shift their responsibilities to schools and act blind when their lovely Billy beats the shit out of some person in school each day. "Oh, our little Billy couldn't do that!".
You are yet to supply us with a better solution than acting smart, since any other means would be truly stupid. I dare you, prove me something else works better or GTFO instead of bitching and moaning how my argument is stupid. Thanks.
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Post by holyman282 on Nov 25, 2007 23:29:00 GMT -5
Ok, first, kids don't need computers to do their homeworks. There is an interesting gadget called "book" that served its purpose for centuries. A computer is just a luxury. And... every kid NEED a computer? Thats heavy..... Kid nº 1 will not befriend kid nº 2 because kid nº 2 doesn't own a computer? Personally, I think kid nº 2 is better off without a friend like that.... First of all, certainly there are books to do homework and research, but you are still in effect disadvantaging your child against others who can gather and reference more information using the internet. Also with reguards to social isolation, I'm not talking about a person who won't become friends with another just because that person does not have a computer. I'm talking about the subtle peer pressure that comes with his/her friends talking about a game, interesting convos in chatrooms ect and feeling left out because he/she does not have a computer of her/his own. This would lead to emotional problems, perhaps a lack of self esteem and questioning why he/she is the only one without a computer and hence leads to a subsequent feeling of isolation. Certainly I'm not saying people will hate you for not having a computer, it's just that computer and internet has become such a social norm that not having one will likely result in you feeling left out on your own. Also people won't purposely dislike you just for not having a computer, but they'll find more things in common and to talk about with people who does and may unintentionally isolate you on their own. Couldn't agree with you more, rather then opting for short term (and most likely to fail) solutions such as "pulling the plug" or using programs to restrict what kids can few on the internet (looking at you Youko). You should as jorgebonafe says to try to teach them wrong from right. Shielding your kids from every possible thing that could "contaminate" their innocent mind is as worse as exposing them to inappropriate things. So you are saying that it's stupid to expose children to something and yet you claim it's stupid to try and not to let them get exposed to it? Are you mental? I'd love to see what other you think is better solution than guiding and teaching your kid. No what I'm saying is that not giving them the use of computers/internet is bad, I never claimed that you should "expose" them to innapropriate material. I don't know about you but the internet isn't just used to watch porn ok? First of all I was never against guiding the child in their early stages of development. But let's take another look at your solutions shall we? Solution 1: Pull the plug (great idea genius, I can really tell you put alot of thought into this one) Solution 2: Programs to restrict internet sites. Those aren't guiding, your ideas falls into the category of dictatorship. Your ideas doesn't give them a choice (where they can decide for themselves what is right and wrong) but rather gives them only one choice, i.e. pull the plug or stop them from visiting certain sites. I believe jorgebonafe's ideas are a much better one where, rather then forcing them, you actually educate them on what's right and wrong. Off course being that you're Youko, the word educate doesn't have a definition. You would rather shove your opinions and ideals down other people's throats. You know what Youko, coming up with a stupid idea is the same as coming up with no idea, only that you are wasting people's time by making them read your stupid ideas. I can tell that you put no thought into your answers. I don't have a solution, but I do like jorgebonafe's solution alot better then yours. At least I can tell he put some thought into his answers rather then opting for stupid one liners like "unplug the plug". As for me bitching and moaning about how stupid your ideas are, well I don't see what's wrong about it. When I see a stupid idea I'd want to bitch about it, which come to think of it, is exactly what you do.
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Post by Youko on Nov 26, 2007 0:01:10 GMT -5
First of all, certainly there are books to do homework and research, but you are still in effect disadvantaging your child against others who can gather and reference more information using the internet. I managed to finish my school just fine without internet. Usually what you have to study, is all available in the books you have so you don't even need internet. That's what study plans are for. And if you actually get an asingment that requires internet, go to a friggin library. As the generation who grew with internet, I can say that people are not as depended on it as they think. But hey, what would a kid like you understand, eh? You have had it all from the start. I'm talking about the subtle peer pressure that comes with his/her friends talking about a game, interesting convos in chatrooms ect and feeling left out because he/she does not have a computer of her/his own. Not having internet connection doesn't meant you can't have a computer or a gaming console with internet access. You are jumping after hays in the air here. This would lead to emotional problems, perhaps a lack of self esteem and questioning why he/she is the only one without a computer and hence leads to a subsequent feeling of isolation. Holygirl, this site is nnot to write your diary to, get a myspace account or something. Certainly I'm not saying people will hate you for not having a computer, it's just that computer and internet has become such a social norm that not having one will likely result in you feeling left out on your own. Only between you kids. It's not a social norm to anyone over the age of 20. If your friends are true, they wouldn't preasure you from something bullshitty than that. That's also something a parent can, no, should teach. And if you feel your the preasure on your own, express your feelings to your parents instead of taking that shotgun to the local Wal Mart. Also people won't purposely dislike you just for not having a computer, but they'll find more things in common and to talk about with people who does and may unintentionally isolate you on their own. Yeah, that's what they say about people who smoke. Look what good that has done to me. Lungs ruined and physicall not fit. Couldn't agree with you more, rather then opting for short term (and most likely to fail) solutions such as "pulling the plug" or using programs to restrict what kids can few on the internet (looking at you Youko). You should as jorgebonafe says to try to teach them wrong from right. Shielding your kids from every possible thing that could "contaminate" their innocent mind is as worse as exposing them to inappropriate things. Pulling the plug is still the most effecient way to restrict kids access to bad sites, as was my original claim. You are yet to supply me with a better one. Instead, what you do is bitch and moan without actually trying to find a solution to the problem. Also, blacklisting sites removes 90% of the shit you don't want your kids to see. I'm just not sure why someone would grow so twisted like you holy, that they'd need moderation to not grow to be an moron. And incase you are not as blind as you are stupid, you'd notice I stated that a parent should guide and teach the right and wrong to their children quite several times. You just read what you want to, dolt. I never said to try to hide all the bad bad things in the world from them. I'm saying to moderate in what age they access cuh content, as was the original topic of discussion. You know, I hate the morons like you who don't bother to do research on what they get in to, but do anyways with some randomass bullshit and false claims. If you want to actually take part in this conversation anymore, read what is told and give a better solution than has allready been offered ages ago.
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Post by holyman282 on Nov 26, 2007 0:30:09 GMT -5
I managed to finish my school just fine without internet. Usually what you have to study, is all available in the books you have so you don't even need internet. That's what study plans are for. And if you actually get an asingment that requires internet, go to a friggin library. As the generation who grew with internet, I can say that people are not as depended on it as they think. I never said you couldn't do all your homework or find all your info from a book. Just that those keeping in step with the latest technology, or using the internet has an advantage. Also considering most people these days have the internet, you would be greatly disadvantaging yourself. Internet is faster and allows you access to more information, but I'm not saying you can't do the same work using books. Yes I do have it all from the start thank you. No need to be so bitter about it. ;D Haha, I get it cause this is a forum and isn't myspace and myspace is myspace and a forum is a forum! HAHA you should be a standup comedian No internet has become a social norm now even among the older people. Don't know what age you're living in though lol. Also we aren't really talking about the people over the age of 20 are we? The topic for this thread was " Children say the darnest things..." Off course leave it to Youko to turn a argument about kids and their exposure to innapropriate materials to a debate about age and who's more mature. Real mature Youko Isn't that great Youko? Now you can fit right into the group of people who have their lungs ruined and physically not fit! You don't have to be alone anyone I'm so happy for you! You obviously didn't read the little bit extra added to my post in answer of jorgebonafe. Yes I'm twisted because I disagree with you and I'm a moron because pulling the plug is obviously the more viable solution which every parent in the world will now undertake. Wait for your nobel peace prize Youko for superb parenting kills i mean skills. lol now Youko's targeting another demographic group, the blind people, smooth. Actually my eyesight is pretty bad thank you very much, it's more or less genetic as both my parents wore glasses. Yes I have, I just didn't consider someone with your personality would consider teaching right and wrong to their children. In fact I'm sure you don't even have kids. Heavens forbid if you actually do have children cause i can see the important life skills that you'll teach them. How to insult people you don't even know on internet forums, nice! Sorry i'm using books right now to do my research and apparently they don't have anything on how to reply to moronic solutions like unplug the plug. Damn and I used the index page too. ;D
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Post by Aurica Nestmile on Nov 26, 2007 0:47:07 GMT -5
Easier way to deal: Kill the kids...
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Post by jorgebonafe on Nov 26, 2007 0:53:41 GMT -5
Easier way to deal: Kill the kids... You are joking, but thats what they do in China, you know... Of course, its for a different reason
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Post by Youko on Nov 26, 2007 0:55:02 GMT -5
I never said you couldn't do all your homework or find all your info from a book. Just that those keeping in step with the latest technology, or using the internet has an advantage. Internet gives you no advantage, when a computer might. With no internet, no exposure. Well, that entirely depends on the asingment given, but like I said, libraries. If you insist to claim otherwise, actually base your argument on something, like I have to keep reminding you. Yes I do have it all from the start thank you. No need to be so bitter about it. ;D I'm not bitter. If you actually were as smart as you pretend to be, you would've gotten that I had actually a point there. You think they are irreplaceable because you always had them. Same think people who have smoked for years or used the cellphone. Gee, I do wonder how we ever managed without them.. >_> Idiot. Haha, I get it cause this is a forum and isn't myspace and myspace is myspace and a forum is a forum! HAHA you should be a standup comedian No, you need a set of brains. Go being an emo somewhere else, please. Just like the rest of your kin. No internet has become a social norm now even among the older people. Don't know what age you're living in though lol. It's not a social norm with me nor any of my friends nor their friends nor my co-workers. I do wonder from whose ass you ripped this claim from. Oh right, yours. Even when Finland is an advanced country considering internet development, only less than 1/4 of people have internet access. Gee, a norm you said? I thought a majorty made a norm. Guess it doesn't matter to an idiot, tho. Also we aren't really talking about the people over the age of 20 are we? The topic for this thread was " Children say the darnest things..." Off course leave it to Youko to turn a argument about kids and their exposure to innapropriate materials to a debate about age and who's more mature. Real mature Youko You really are denser than led. Woo woo. It's the clue train coming and the last stop is you. If the generation past th age of 20 managed just fine without internet and computer aiding their schoolwork, what prevents the kids doing the same thesedays? Or are you saying you are grown so dependent on a piece of hardware that you can't imagine how a pen and paper works? *sigh*. Kids thesedays. So dependent on plastic, metal and bling that they don't know a shit about anything outside the world of those. Oh wait, maybe it's just you. Haha. Isn't that great Youko? Now you can fit right into the group of people who have their lungs ruined and physically not fit! You don't have to be alone anyone I'm so happy for you! And yet your idiocy hazes the point in what I wrote. Being in groups like you described above doesn't mean it makes things any better, more likely it can make them worse. Yes I'm twisted because I disagree with you and I'm a moron because pulling the plug is obviously the more viable solution which every parent in the world will now undertake. Wait for your nobel peace prize Youko for superb parenting kills i mean skills. You are twisted because your views are twisted and you don't even base them on anything. Here you come like a king of a hill with fancy words of a politician that, in the end, mean nothing. And now that you lost your temper, your true idiocy is revealed. How convinient for me. Easier for me to counter your stupid arguments, which ain't arguments since you don't base them on anything, thus making it being just an idiot bitch. And you keep bashing my advice of limiting internet access and no matter how many times I ask, you do not offer a better solution.I'd say that's a proof of idiocy if nothing. lol now Youko's targeting another demographic group, the blind people, smooth. Actually my eyesight is pretty bad thank you very much, it's more or less genetic as both my parents wore glasses. And I don't see how that's relevant. You are jumping after the hay again, my friend. I made a rather good point there, instead of attacking it, you just decided to pull the discimination card out of your ass. Nice try. Yes I have, I just didn't consider someone with your personality would consider teaching right and wrong to their children. In fact I'm sure you don't even have kids. Heavens forbid if you actually do have children cause i can see the important life skills that you'll teach them. How to insult people you don't even know on internet forums, nice! I'm not sure how this is relevant in any way. If you are only gona concentrate on random insults instead of the matter at hand, go to a gaiaonline or something where the people of your level mingle. Sorry i'm using books right now to do my research and apparently they don't have anything on how to reply to moronic solutions like unplug the plug. Damn and I used the index page too. ;D Oh? You are reading "Debating for the idiots"? Doesn't seem to be working. Oh wait, you actually were ontopic! I'd lilke to know the names of the books and you providing photocopis of the content which says that limiting internet access is a poor solution compared to solution B. I mean, if you are reading it, you can surely atleast write it, which you have failed to do thus far. And I don't think it's normal for a 13yo to have baby fever. Especially for a male.
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Post by Aurica Nestmile on Nov 26, 2007 1:40:34 GMT -5
What reason, jorge?
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Post by jorgebonafe on Nov 26, 2007 6:52:39 GMT -5
This is going offtopic.... Anyway, its because there is a law about the number of children allowed per familly. I believe is only one or two. And they also give preference to boys for several reasons, so its a common practice to abandon or even kill the first kid if its a girl.
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